Traditional Movements Are Non-Catholic Sects!

Posted 10-26-2010

The following research and much of the writing was done by Patrick Henry. I have used most of this because it is so well done and I agree with it.  On the other hand Patrick Henry is also a Sedevacantist and believes that Vatican II and the present popes are not Catholic. When you read the proof of the Traditionalist he writes here, it would seem impossible that he does not cling to the present Pope, but he does not.  No matter what I think of him, his argument as written here is excellent.

History of Traditionalists

Who started the Traditional Movement?  Was it:

Father De Paw and the Catholic Traditional Movement? 

Bishop Francis Schuckardt and the CMRI church? 

Archbishop Thuc and the many heads of the Thuc-line churches? 

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the SSPX church? 

Bishop Kelly and the SSPV church? 


* Most of the Traditionalist clerics trace their lineage of holy orders back to

1) the Old Catholics, or

 2) Archbishop Thuc, or

3) Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

These hundreds of Traditionalist clerics and sects are all connected because they all come from one of the above three trunks of the separated churches.

* None of the Traditionalist bishops received a papal mandate.

* None of the Traditionalist clerics have ordinary or delegated jurisdiction. 

Nor have they received authority or a mission from the Church.

* Most of the Traditionalist clerics offer their Mass services in Latin.

* Traditionalists follow the rules of their sect leader rather than the rules of the Church or a particular religious order.

These rules may pertain to style of governance, Church doctrine, various disciplines, interpretation and application of canon law, the choice of liturgy, and rules of religious bodies.  Consequently there is no unity among the various sects.  For example, some Traditionalists use the Mass prayers of Pope Saint Pius V, some groups such as the Society of St. Pius X sect use the “liturgy” of John XXIII, while still others use the prayers of Vatican II. *

Traditionalist’s are notorious for justifying their disparity with the Church and each other by making statements to the effect that, “Canon law is not for our times; canon law is only a norm for our guidance; epikeia saves our day and takes God’s unwanted laws away; epikeia allows us to do everything we do.”

Epikeia is heresy

An indulgent and benign interpretation of law, which regards a law as not applying in a particular case because of circumstances unforeseen by the lawmaker. The lawmaker cannot foresee all possible cases that may come under the law, and it is therefore reasonably presumed that were the present circumstances known to the legislator he would permit the act, e.g., a mother presumes that she may miss Mass on Sunday when there is no one present to care for her baby. Epikeia is not permitted, however, no matter how grave the inconvenience, if violation of the law would render an act null and void, e.g., to presume that marriage may be contracted because of grave inconvenience in spite of an existing diriment impediment.

* Many Traditionalist clerics have been accused of and are suspected of being involved in homosexuality or other acts of immorality.

* Many Traditionalists were former members of the Novus Ordo or traditional Protestant sects.  However, most of them were not required to officially profess the faith and abjure their non-Catholic errors.

* Traditionalist clerics are confused on who is in the Church and who is not.  Therefore, they are not consistent on the Church’s requirement for the formal observance of the abjuration of error and profession of faith prior to administering the sacraments to the faithful.  Some require it, others do not, and others pick and choose when it is required.

* Many Traditionalist clerics show a special favoritism or preferential treatment to certain members of their parish.  Especially has this been known to be the case if those members are wealthy!

* Traditionalist clerics often do whatever it takes to persuade, influence, and convince parishioners to fix their Last Wills so that the cleric or organization will receive an inheritance upon their deaths.

* Parishioner’s problems brought to the attention of certain Traditionalist clerics are frequently ignored.  Many conscientious and caring parishioners who speak up against wrongs also risk being severely rebuked, dismissed from employment, denounced from the pulpit, expelled from the community, or threatened with eternal damnation!

* All Traditionalist groups demonstrate cult-like characteristics.  A number of Traditionalist clerics are secretly – and some very openly – involved in mind control, hypnotism, superstition, Satanism, Freemasonry, Trento, and other occult things.

* All of the Traditionalist clerics that I know belong to a separated church.  The Old Catholic branches of the Traditionalist clerics separated from the Catholic Church to start their own church.  The CMRI sect claims it separated from the Old Catholics to start another separated church.  CMRI Traditionalist clerics separated from each other to start various churches.  A few stayed with Bishop Schuckardt when his community separated in a big way in 1984.  From these few clerics, Bishop Schuckardt consecrated two more bishops who can carry on making more separated churches.

Most of the CMRI Traditionalist clerics who separated from Bishop Schuckardt in 1984 chose to continue on their separated work in various, different branches of the Thuc-line.  Some remained members of CMRI, while others went independent from the rest to start their own new churches.  

The Thuc-line sects separated into quite a variety of separated branches of the Traditionalists.  These include the Palmar de Troya branch, which claimed Marian apparitions and proceeded to follow their own self-appointed pope.  The Palmar de Troya church then separated into many branches.  Later Archbishop Thuc started the Cassiciacum branches, which espouse the papa materialiter, non-formaliter ideology.  Other Thuc-line branches include both Sedevacantists and non-Sedevacantists.  A number of these have ties and connections to the Old Catholics and Russian Orthodox churches.  There is, of course, the Mexican branch of the Traditionalist clerics, which again separated itself into several more branches in Mexico.  Part of this branch spread to the USA, and from there it separated again into the “West of the Mississippi” for Bishop George Musey’s sect and “East of the Mississippi” for the Bishop Vezelis’ sect.  Both of these two branches split again to make more separated branches.  Part of the “West of the Mississippi” branch has spread back over to the Old Catholic church.  Whilst on the East side of the Mississippi, the Franciscan branch had one of its priests break off from the ordaining bishop to continue yet another separated branch.  Another separated branch from the divided Mexican branches grew into some of the CMRI branches. 

As you can see by all of the above, who can even keep track of the many recently founded and separated churches that did not exist before 1960?  But no matter how often they separate, divide, and make more churches with contrary beliefs, all of the Traditionalist clerics strongly claim that they carry on the first mark of the Catholic Church – Unity!  Do you agree that the only unity there is among all of these separated churches is the fact that each and every one of them is separated from the Catholic Church?

This next head, who calls himself Pope Lucious Turtlemocker, provides some examples of what a slick, efficient, and resourceful tool epikeia is for the Traditionalist monster.  First off, epikeia saves his day and takes God’s unwanted laws away, enough to allow him to be elected pope by lay people who voted for him via the telephone and Internet from all around the world.  Following Pope Lucious Turtlemocker’s election by the laity, he provided yet another good example of what epikeia can do for the Traditionalists.  His next step was to use epikeia to allow him to consecrate one of those who elected him.  Why would epikeia be necessary for this consecration you ask?  Because Pope Lucious Turtlemocker was still only a priest, without the episcopal powers necessary to consecrate a bishop.  Next, someone will surely ask if they again used epikeia when this newly elected bishop returned the ‘episcopal powers’ to Pope Lucious Turtlemocker by consecrating him.

As was expected, all of the other heads of the monster are screaming and yelling at the new pope, We will not accept you as our pope!”  Pope Lucious Turtlemocker asks, Why not?”  Can you show us your line of Apostolic Succession back to Saint Peter?”  But Pope Lucious Turtlemocker’s apostolic succession only started and ended immediately with the bishop he just consecrated!  Pope Lucious Turtlemocker retorts, Shut up, and just accept me as your pope! Why do you ask such an embarrassing question?  Don’t you know we live in extraordinary times, and therefore epikeia saves the day and takes all unwanted laws away?”

This Traditionalist monster has so many heads that yet another one, speaks out to make his own case for authority,

I solemnly condemn everyone else who claims to be the pope!  None of you could have been validly elected because I already proclaimed myself Supreme Pontiff the very day that Paul VI died.”  

But the head of the first Traditional Movement sect in America, yells back at him,

Heretic, I’ve got you beat!  I was crowned pope by the Holy Mother of God Herself when She appeared to me.” 

Another haughty head of the Traditionalist monster bangs his head against all the others and pronounces,

There are only three Catholic bishops left in the whole world, and two of them came from ME!  Two of us live in New York, and the other one resides in Mexico.  You must all swear immediate obedience to me or else be damned!” 

But the other heads snap back,

Does that make you the First See, since you are the oldest and claim all the other bishops in the whole world come from you?  If you are the one and only, what happened to the head that made you a bishop?” 

The ninth head angrily replies with annoyance:

He and all of those associated with him left the Church because they associated with my Feeneyite Vicar General.  How dare you question my authority you disobedient devils!”

Yet other heads of the monster speak out in response:

When you three Catholic bishops decide to elect a new pope, put our names in the hat.  Your line of succession comes from Archbishop Thuc, the same as ours.  We are from the lines that went over to the Old Catholic sect.  We’re not the first women bishops found in the Old Catholic sect, but we are part of them now thanks to Archbishop Thuc.  Just because we are females doesn’t mean we shouldn’t qualify to be the next pope.  After all, we qualified to be Thuc-line bishops.  If you don’t like the idea of women priests, bishops, and pope you better realize you’re living in the age of Woman’s Rights!”

Rev. Anthony Cekada predicted in his article, “Two Bishops in Every Garage,” that the multitude of heads connected to the monster from the many Thuc-line branches would eventually unite to elect their own pope.  But his prediction made 27 years ago has not yet come true.  Many of the Traditionalists have been asking, “Why has such an important election not taken place?”  After all, Rev. Cekada did one of those 180-degree flip-flops that often take place in the monster church.  As he flipped, he changed positions, as with many other Traditionalist clerics, they are now frequently seen biting and fighting with their former head who ordained them.  The laity continues to ask,

“Why haven’t these Thuc-line bishops elected a pope, since Rev. Anthony Cekada says they are all valid?”  Yes, even Rev. Cekada now defends the validity of these rogue and rascal bishops that can be found in every garage.”

But each one of the many heads of the monster unanimously answers: Who needs a pope, I am the authority!  I function as the pope with universal jurisdiction and go wherever I choose to go on earth.  I am the one who makes the laws!”  Yes, each head of the monster makes their own laws even while they break, disregard, and ignore many of the canon laws of the Church.

There are many other heads that make up this monster, and year after year more appear.  Everyone who has observed this monster sees these numerous heads butting together and biting at each other as they carry on in disunity, chaos, and madness.  However, the only time these heads do unite and work together is when they gang up against another head that finally sees the scary monster for what it is, and who has the sincerity to say the following:

We all know that if the Church ever has another truly elected pope, he will take away our universal ‘jurisdiction’, liberties, and freedoms that we all enjoy so much.  The scary truth of why we are not united in the faith, and why we make little effort to elect a true pope is because the many heads of this non-Catholic monster are not even qualified, capable, or eligible to elect a pope.  The second scary reason we would not elect a pope even if we could, is because he would have to side with the true popes of the Church.  Any real Vicar of Jesus Christ would be like Pope Pius VI, and proclaim and declare all of us heads who make up this scary monster sect to be intruder, non-Catholic priests, bishops, and pontiffs.”

What do you think the answers would be if you asked all of the members of the Traditionalists who make up this scary monster:

“To what church does your family belong?” 

If you asked John and Jane Doe Traditionalist, you could expect an answer such as: “We belong to the Society of St. Pius X.  Our oldest son goes to the SSPV, and our oldest daughter became a Sister in the CMRI.  One of Jane’s brothers goes to Bishop Dolan, while the other one goes to Father Ramolla after he separated from Bishop Dolan to start his own church.   Her younger sister receives the sacraments from Bishop Kelly.  We used to attend Mass at our neighbor’s home when the circuit priests, Fathers Town and Lucian came through our area.  But when Father Town died and Father Lucian claimed to be a pope, we started with the Society.  Jane’s parents go to Father Kevin, and my parents just stay home now because they got fed up, depressed, and down in the dumps with all the fighting and disunity going on in the Traditional Movement.  My sister still goes to Father Joseph, O.F.M. when he comes into town the last Sunday of each month.  However, she still goes to confession each week via the telephone.”

Ask the members of the Traditionalist monster who founded the Traditional Movement?  Did this monster start with one, two, or three heads?  Was it Archbishop Thuc or Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre or both of them or neither of them?  If you choose one or both of these Archbishops, can you tell me the year they started the Traditional Movement?  If it was either of them then why did Bishop Schuckardt claim he started the first Traditionalists in America, since he was not connected to either Archbishop Thuc or Archbishop Lefebvre?  Take note that Bishop Schuckardt’s CMRI was the first, and it only started in the late 1960s!

Who belonged to the Mormon sect before 1830?  Nobody, because it did not exist!  I think it has millions of members now, and a number of them were former Catholics.  But do you agree that not one member of the Mormon sect is a member of the true Church Jesus Christ founded?

Can you name even one person who belonged to the non-Catholic Lutheran church before 1500?  Do you agree that there were many baptized Catholics who became members of the new religion Luther started a few years later?  Do you agree that some of those Catholics in Father Martin Luther’s parish just stayed with him when he broke away from the Church?  Do you agree that they all left the Catholic Church by being members of a new, recently founded sect?  How long did they remain members of the Catholic Church?  Did you know they still called themselves Catholics and not Lutherans for about 100 years?   Can you count the number of new heads of the Protestant monster that was started by Luther?

Who belonged to the Traditional Movement before 1960?  Do you see history repeating itself?

There are millions of martyrs and canonized saints in the Catholic Church.  Can you name even one of them that belonged to the Traditional Movement?

Do I believe Jesus Christ founded the Traditional Movement?  No!  Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church about 2,000 years ago.  I have not heard of anyone who was a member of the Traditional Movement monster before 1960, because it did not exist 50 years ago.  Do you agree that it is impossible for any one of the separated branches of this multi-headed Traditionalists monster to be the Catholic Church?

How can any Catholic convince himself that such a monster is the Bride of Jesus Christ reflecting His Oneness, Goodness, Truth, and Beauty?  The Traditionalists do not even have the same Mass, sacraments, and liturgy!  Nor are they in communion with one another.  Not one of them by itself, or all of them together, possesses the Four Marks of the Church.

All Authority Comes from Peter

* Traditionalist clerics function as if they have spiritual authority in the Church.  For that reason they reject the truth that: “All spiritual authority comes from Peter.”

* Traditionalists reject the truth that, “The Apostolic See is the sole source of legitimate power,” and that unless a bishop received a papal mandate and jurisdiction through a Vicar of Jesus Christ, he does not have legitimate power.

* No Traditionalist accepts the truth explained by Dom Guéranger: We, then, both priests and people, have a right to know whence our pastors have received their power.  If they claim our obedience without having been sent by the bishop of Rome, we must refuse to receive them for they are not acknowledged by Christ as His ministers.  They must be as aliens to us, for they have not been sent, they are not pastors.

* Traditionalists are a conglomerate, rolled together concoction of chaotic, disorganized, incompetent, uncontrollable, unmanageable, unruly, and disobedient groups of separated non-Catholic sects, divisions, and factions who continue to manifest their quarrelsome, argumentative, competitive, jealous, and challenging attitudes toward each other.

The power of jurisdiction does not pass on from bishop to bishop.  This power of jurisdiction flows to the bishops only through the Successor of Saint Peter, and without it Apostolic Succession does not pass from one Catholic bishop to all the bishops he consecrates.

Listen to Pope Leo XIII as we again read from Satis Cognitum:

“14.  It is necessary, therefore, to bear this in mind, viz., that nothing was conferred on the Apostles apart from Peter, but that several things were conferred upon Peter apart from the Apostles… whatever He did not deny to the others he gave only through him.  So that whereas Peter alone received many things, He conferred nothing on any of the rest without Peter participating in it.”

The Unity of the Church would be destroyed if all of the intruder, schismatic, and heretical bishops who received their consecration without Peter participating in it actually passed on Apostolic Succession?  Would there be as many non-Catholic branches still claiming to be Catholics as there have been bishops who were separated from the Catholic Church these past 2,000 years?

All such consecrations are illicit and received outside of the Catholic Church unless Peter participates in them?  It is only if Peter participates in their consecration that bishops will receive jurisdiction and have what is necessary to pass on Apostolic Succession?  None of the Traditionalists bishops coming from the Old Catholic-line, the Thuc-line, or the Lefebvre-line had Peter participate in their consecration?

Always remember an important truth Pope Pius XII wrote in this encyclical:

The power of jurisdiction… flows to the bishops… only through the Successor of Saint Peter.” 

Although many of those who started the schisms and heresies condemned by the Catholic Church were first Catholic bishops, their newly formed schismatic sects were without jurisdiction, and therefore they did not have the ability to pass on Apostolic Succession. 

Always remember these important facts:

1st fact: Bishops who do not hold spiritual powers from the pope are intruded or schismatic bishops.  (See Exposition of Christian Doctrine, as quoted above on page 17).

2nd fact: Not one of the Traditionalist clerics holds his spiritual powers from the pope, and therefore they are in schism according to the unchangeable teaching of the Catholic Church.

3rd fact: Pope Pius XII wrote in Mystici Corporis Christi: “For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.

4th fact: Bishops in schism, heresy, or apostasy cannot pass on Apostolic Succession, although it is possible for some of them to pass on valid orders.

5th fact: Not one cleric in the Traditional Movement has ordinary jurisdiction because: “This power of jurisdiction flows to the bishops only through the Successor of Saint Peter.”  Epikeia is not an act of jurisdiction, and epikeia cannot be used to obtain jurisdiction. “Even if valid orders exist, where jurisdiction is lacking there is no real Apostolic Succession.  Therefore, the Traditional Movement is a non-Catholic sect!